on the big screen this week | françois ozon’s when autumn falls
Editor’s note: This review contains some spoilers.
François Ozon’s latest film When Autumn Falls is an unexpected thriller hinged on friendship and faltering family dynamics. At the heart of the film is Michelle (Hélène Vincent,) a sweet grandma who spends her days up keeping her rustic home and going for walks with her chain smoking best friend Marie-Claude (Josiane Balasko.) “I’m appalled at how rapidly older people are disappearing from view in society and on screens. I countered this by filming actresses in their seventies and eighties who wear their age proudly and accept it without artifice,” said director Ozon in a press interview.
Their loyal friendship began many years ago in Paris where they worked together. Their shared past follows them like a heavy grey cloud, even into old age. “We tend to sanctify and idealise older people, forgetting that they’ve lived complex lives. They were young once, they are sexual beings, they have subconscious thoughts and desires,” said Ozon. The delightful duo mirror each other when it comes to motherhood. They both question whether they have been good mothers as Marie-Claude’s son Vincent (Pierre Lottin) is finding his feet after a stint in prison and Michelle’s daughter Valérie (Ludivine Sagnier) has a fractured relationship with her mother, further threatened by an unfortunate series of events.
“When I was a child, one of my aunts organised a family meal where she cooked mushrooms she’d picked herself. That night everyone was very ill except for her because she hadn’t eaten any. I was fascinated by this incident and suspected my aunt – so kind and caring – of having wanted to poison the entire family,” said Ozon on the film’s conception. “When we cook wild mushrooms, are we not, more or less subconsciously, trying to get rid of someone? Starting with that question, I created a character who seems to be the epitome of a doting grandmother, but who might actually be a bit more sinister than outside appearances would suggest.”
Set in Burgundy, the French countryside becomes a character of its own throughout the film. The landscape’s cosy and autumnal colour palette fills the screen with maroon, amber and toasty browns. The tranquil rustling of trees and the tinkering of metal spoons on soup bowls evokes a warm homeliness that starkly contrasts the void in Michelle’s family life. Its frigidity is captured through isolating wooden door frames and ignored phone calls. As an audience, the camera’s frequent vertical sweeps remove you from the narrative at times, but equally serve as a reminder that we are merely a voyeuristic fly on the wall to each character’s choices.
Nature plays a transitional role in the film with the change of seasons signifying mortality and the lengths people will go to ensure they survive. Whether that be Marie-Claude’s son Vincent trying to stay out of prison or Michelle desperately trying to stay connected to her grandson Lucas (Garlan Erlos,) each character protects their own, and in doing so, exposes their deepest fractures.
The faults each character is willing to overlook and the secrets they decide to keep in the name of preserving familial ties, at its core, is the most human aspect of this film. Flawed humans doing whatever they can to evade emotional solitude, even if it costs them. A concept illustrated by a striking image of one character resting like a camouflaged fallen leaf on the forest floor. “I want the film to make us wonder what our own behaviour and reactions would be if someone close to us were suspected of committing an act we disapprove of, but for which we have no proof…How far would we go to protect them? These questions feel particularly relevant today, in light of the current political and social unrest,” said Ozon.
It seems that much like the tumbling autumn leaves, throughout the film women fall victim to the mistakes of men. Marie-Claude suffers her own health problems worrying about the misbehaviour of her son. “It’s like a punch in the gut. Her body keeps the score…she feels responsible for her son’s struggles,” said Ozon. The mistakes of Marie-Claude’s son bear little repercussion, only protection. In contrast, the women in When Autumn Falls cannot escape their errors. We come to learn that all that tension in the brisk autumn breeze stems from a family history riddled with shame, blame and guilt.
Through the lens of 2025, the villainisation that Michelle receives for her past feels out of place. Although, Ozon explained that “Michelle and Marie-Claude’s past is a pebble in their children’s shoes. Doing some research, I found that in general there are two types of reactions. Either the child defends the mother, seeing her as a victim who needs help now, to get healthcare, retirement. Or the child rejects the mother, disgusted and shocked by what she did.”
‘When Autumn Falls’ is showing in UK & Irish cinemas from 21st March
photography. Courtesy of Parkland Pictures
words. Shama Nasinde
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A paradise full of sin, betrayal and power games… The White Lotus moves to the tropics of Thailand for its third season, once again revealing the deepest human weaknesses hidden behind a sumptuous vacation. In this seemingly idyllic world, who is truly innocent and who is tainted by sin? And the biggest question: Who is this season’s victim and who is this season’s killer? Mike White’s masterfully written story keeps this mystery until the very end. One of this season’s standouts is Arnas Fedaravicius, best known for The Last Kingdom. Fedaravičius, who plays Valentin in the series, appears as a yoga instructor, masseur and health mentor working at The White Lotus hotel.
Schön! speaks with Fedaravičius about the excitement of being part of a big production, how he got the offer for the role, the filming process in Thailand and how the third season will surprise viewers.
What was your first reaction when you found out you were cast in Season 3? Did you instantly say yes, or did you have to think about it for a moment?
That’s funny. I’d like to see someone who was like, “Hmm, am I gonna say yes to The White Lotus?” I think there wasn’t any doubt that, as soon as I heard the news, I was like, “No doubt, yes, I’m doing this.” It was hard to believe, too — like, it was really hard to believe this news because I had completely forgotten that I auditioned for it. I think nothing in life is kind of promised or secured, but I had this instant feeling that my life was about to change. Life is about to change because it’s just such a huge thing to be part of. So it was hard to believe, but also, there was this sensation of, like, “Wow, life is gonna change now.” Not that my life wasn’t great — I mean, by all accounts, I was living a great life — but it just added this little extra, like, spice.
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How was the auditioning process? I assume it was a bit complicated? Maybe it was a bit crowded?
Well, my personal experience was that I just did a self-tape, as I’m sure most people around the world did. I think the actual auditioning was perhaps in Los Angeles, but at the time, I was in Paris. I was very lucky that I had my friends from a past show with me. Someone brought a tripod, somebody had some lights. We were in a hotel, and we were just trying out different ideas, different things. It’s really nice to do it with your friends because a lot of people hate self-tapes since you have to direct yourself, but I’ve now come to love them because you get to decide how you present yourself. We just did a variety of different, silly versions of takes and then sent them out. I didn’t have a callback, which I know some people did. I hadn’t met the director or the producers until I got to Thailand. I was very fortunate. I did one tape, and I got the job.
That must have been really surprising.
Yeah! That’s another thing that made me think, “Really? I got the job just like that?” There wasn’t a callback — they just gave me the job.
It must have boosted your confidence!
Exactly, yes. It was the best news.
What can you tell us about your character? How does he fit into the dynamics of The White Lotus this season? Without spoiling too much, of course, is he someone we should keep an eye on?
Oh, just like everyone on the show, everyone has their own secrets and surprises. You should stay alert. I think whenever you watch The White Lotus, that’s the theme for audiences — you have to stay alert because you never know who’s doing what and how. I play Valentin — he’s a yoga instructor, a masseur, and a health mentor who works for the hotel. He’s a Russian expat, which there are a lot of in Thailand. He loves having a great time. I think he really loves his job, and I think he’s pretty good at it, which is why he’s kept it. To be part of The White Lotus hotels, you have to be good at something. He’s a fun-loving guy and sometimes people like to spend more time with him because of his looks or his skills. And, well, fun stuff happens.
The show is also known for its dark humour and sharp social critique. How do you think Season 3 raises the stakes in that regard? Every season tackles different themes — did this one surprise you in any way?
Yeah, when I was reading it, I already thought, “This is so profound.” The moment I got all the scripts — because it’s rare to get the entire thing upfront — I thought it was very profound in exploring people’s religions, and their associations with religion. Then there are, obviously, some observations of the current zeitgeist, what’s happening in the world, the relationships between people of different faiths, different beliefs — perhaps even different political beliefs. There are really sharp moments where you’re like, “Wow, I can’t wait for audiences to see this.” I don’t know if you’ve seen it yourself yet, but even though only three episodes have come out, there are already certain jokes and moments that make you think, “Wait, this could have been written and shot two weeks ago!”
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Exactly! Especially the conversations Michelle Monaghan, Carrie Coon, and Leslie Bibb have. I was going to say that! The part about Trump and politics — it’s quite recent, but they’re already discussing it. So it was really shocking, actually.
That’s why I think one of the fascinating things about Mike White is his ability to be so in tune with what’s going on in the world. I don’t know how, but I think he’s one of the most perceptive people I’ve ever met.
Was there a particular scene or storyline that surprised you when you first read the script? Like something that made you think, “Wow, we’re really going there?”
I don’t want to give away too much, but I’ll just say — stay alert. The twists and turns in the relationships — when I was reading the script, there were a lot of strong “wow” moments. Like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe this is happening!” or “I can’t believe they’re actually talking about this!” I think the big twists and turns really start happening in episodes 4 and 5. All of the storylines and all the different characters you’ve followed up until that point — you might have thought one thing, but in episodes 4, 5, and 6, your expectations will completely shift.
Filming on an island in Thailand must have been an experience in itself. How did the location influence the atmosphere on set? Did it feel like a real-life resort, or did it still feel like work?
Formally, it was work, but I had to keep reminding myself of that. Not because I was going out or anything, but you had to remind yourself, “Let’s not forget, we’re here for work.” We were living in insanely luxurious resorts. I keep getting emails from the Four Seasons now because I’m on their list, and every time, I just reminisce about the time we spent there. It just makes your job so much easier.
It’s funny because we were living in this luxurious hotel, I was playing a hotel worker, and all of us who played staff could just go talk to the actual hotel workers. The reality of it all blended with our experience on the show. I’m an absolute fan of Thailand. On my days off, I’d just hop on a motorcycle and cruise around the island. The weather was always perfect, and you were constantly taken care of to the point where you had to remind yourself, “This is temporary.” It’s easy — the human mind gets used to luxury so quickly. When something is hard, it’s harder to adapt. But when something is easy, by day 3, you’re like, “Where’s my turn-down service?”
And the cast is always an eclectic mix of established stars and fresh faces. So what was the energy like on set? Were there any co-stars you particularly connected with? Any fun or unexpected friendships that formed during filming?
I think the experience of what you mentioned — that there are established actors and actors who are still making their way up — makes it feel like a team sport. You get this assistance from these very well-established and good professional actors. Like myself, working with Michelle Monaghan, Carrie Coon, and Leslie Bibb — most of my scenes were with them. Just their presence and assistance — like being off-camera and giving you lines in different ways or helping you see the scenes in a completely new way — made it a constant team effort, and you constantly got to learn. I’ve been a fan of these actors from before. While being there, you just want to ask questions about what to expect, and how to approach this.
I remember we were in this Muay Thai gym — Jason Isaacs’ family was there as well. They were training, and I was sitting on the side of it, preparing, reading sides for a different job and asking him for advice. Or spending time with Walton Goggins, going out for dinner, and asking, “How do I approach this? What do I expect?” And just getting these nuggets of wisdom. And of course, you have these actors in the show that you see as such strong personalities — like, for example, Jon Gries’ character, Greg, where you’re like, “This motherfucker!” But then you meet him, and he’s the nicest, most pleasant man to be around. I think every single one has taught me something about myself and about human interactions—what to expect in this life.
And Mike White has such a unique approach to storytelling. What was it like collaborating with him? Did he give you any specific direction that stood out? He seems like someone who really trusts his actors—was that the case for you too?
I think the fear of coming into the job was like, “Oh my God, this is such a big show. I need to bring my A-game. I need to be super prepared.” You come in with this grandiose idea of how it should be or how you should play this scene. I remember I was a bit nervous. We did a couple of takes, and he just said, “See? Wait. More. More just… more you.” And that was kind of like, “Oh, that’s what this is about.”
You’re creating characters — some of them larger than life — but ultimately, they all come from within you. In the most Mike White fashion, he just grabs onto something like a channelling magician and throws it at you. I just needed to be more me and that was the focus and, because of that, you completely trust him. We’ve all seen the show, we know it works. So whatever comes out of his mouth, whatever he says, you just go, “Absolutely, yes.”
Then, as the show progresses, because you trust him so much, you feel more liberated to bring your ideas and try them out. Like, “Mike, do you think this would work?” and he’s open to it because to have a good idea, you might have to have 10 or 20 bad ideas. Among those ideas, sometimes he’d pick one and say, “That’s a great one — do that.” Or he’d tell you to try something different. It’s just this constant dance with Mike White — you’re dancing, but you never feel like you’re stepping on anyone’s toes.
I think that’s what makes it so unique and the part of that uniqueness also comes from the fact that it’s a whole team, but the whole team trusts one man’s vision.
He wrote it, he’s the showrunner, he’s the director. Sometimes I’m like, “Do you ever take a rest?” And he never looks tired. But the fact that it’s all from him just makes it easier in a way.
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Also, from Season 2, Tanya, played by Jennifer Coolidge, became such an iconic figure. Do you think there’s a character in this season who embodies a similar larger-than-life presence? Maybe not in the same way as Tanya, of course, but someone who really steals the show? For example, I think for me, it’s Patrick Schwarzenegger’s character, Saxon. He’s making me nervous from the first episode! So I feel like, “What’s gonna happen?”
Yeah, that was my experience when I read the script! Like, “Oh my God, this guy has the craziest lines. He has the craziest things to say.” I think you’re right — everyone is uniquely themselves, and no one can be better than anyone else before or after. Tanya’s character kind of established the tone of the show, right? She helped develop it into what it is. For this season, I must say two characters stand out. Parker Posey, definitely — her character. And you’re right, I have to agree with you with Patrick. Every time he speaks, you’re like, “This motherfucker! I can’t believe he just said that!” And Parker, in her own way—when she’s this kind of dreamy, floaty person, and then suddenly she switches to reading a Thai menu perfectly, ordering effortlessly — it’s fantastic.
I think it’s just an amazing cast. It’s a huge cast, yet somehow, every single character is big but also grounded.
Yes! That’s exactly it. Somehow, even with such a large ensemble, everyone gets their moment. The way the show is written, every character feels like they belong there.
You’re widely known for The Last Kingdom. How did stepping into the world of The White Lotus challenge or surprise you as an actor? I think it’s such a different genre—was that part of the appeal for you?
Well, it was my dream for a long time to be in something that blends comedy with drama and thriller elements, so I was very excited. One of the first things that excited me was the fact that getting into my costume takes two minutes — as opposed to The Last Kingdom, where every day it was 30–40 minutes of people pulling you into leather suits and corsets, making you stiff. That was a massive change. Not being in the cold? I’ve been dreaming for a while of just putting on a little shirt and stepping into warm weather! I think, like any actor, I always knew I wanted to do a variety of things. It was just incredible to jump onto something this big — something I had been dreaming about. I’ve always wanted to be part of an HBO show ever since I saw The Sopranos, so it just feels amazing.
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The White Lotus has a fan base that loves to theorize and dissect every detail. Have you come across any wild fan theories about Season 3 yet? And what’s next for you after this? Do you think fans will be able to predict what happens this season, or is it full of surprises like always?
Oh yeah, I’ve already seen some! Since episode 2, people have been saying, “That guy’s the killer! That girl’s the killer! He’s gonna do this, she’s gonna do that!” Even my friends have been messaging me like, “I know you’re involved in this or that!” And I’m like, “Guys, I’m just a health mentor!” But I promise — the ending is not what anyone expects. Mike White is just too good at controlling the audience’s expectations. You think you know where it’s going, but you never do.
As for myself, I have a movie coming out early next year with Jason Statham called Mutiny. Right now, I’m working on a new show here in Scotland. Just auditioning, preparing for the next thing, while also riding the wave of The White Lotus to see where it takes me. Getting to meet people, wonderful people like yourself, taking beautiful pictures for amazing magazines like your own, and just living life. Taking every experience in, learning from the best, having huge dreams, and moving forward.
I was also going to ask one more thing. I just saw it on the internet, maybe it’s not true, but I heard that the fourth season is going to be in Geneva, in Switzerland. Do you know anything about it?
As in The White Lotus?
Yeah.
Oh, I don’t know. I’ve heard that they were travelling already, looking for the next location. I heard someone mention Paris, and someone else mentioned Switzerland. It’s all just like the Mike White Show — it’s a mystery until it happens. Perhaps even us actors, we’ve been told different bits of information just to confuse the rest of the world until it actually happens. I could see that, though — a Swiss experience, maybe somewhere in the mountains. But I really don’t know.
It made me a bit confused, actually, because I was just checking for the fourth season’s location, and I ended up seeing all these different places.
Yeah, The White Lotus is really good at keeping secrets. They’re riding the wave very well. Even their social media presence — like their Instagram — is hilarious now.
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The celestial Nao brought her otherworldly sound to London’s O2 Academy Brixton on 12 March. The British R&B singer released her latest album Jupiter in February and began her international tour shortly after. Centred around growth and optimism, Nao brought the transcendent essence of her album to the stage with dreamlike set design, warm lighting and magnetic charm. Her ethereal vocals and radiant presence truly brought Jupiter to life. Relive her show captured by Schön!
Even on a slightly blurry Zoom call, Tala Ashe’s passion is wholly captivating. Yet, it’s her rich tapestry of experiences that truly informs and enriches her performances, allowing her to form deep connections with her characters and audience alike.
The Iranian-American actress first discovered her love for acting through literature. “I always loved reading,” she expresses, “but to realise that I could step into the shoes of these people who had been living in my books was the real magical thing to me.” Earning a BFA in Acting from Boston University and training at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts and Upright Citizens Brigade Theater in Los Angeles, Ashe’s most notable work includes playing Zari in DC’s Legends of Tomorrow. Still, Ashe has always preferred theatre, saying, “What I so appreciate about theatre is that no one is editing your performance. What happens on that night is what happens on that night, for better or worse, it’s yours.”
Ashe has just reprised her role as Elham on Broadway three years later in English, the Pulitzer Prize-winning play navigating language and identity within a Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) classroom in Iran. The play – while it’s inherently funny – implores audience members to change their perception of people speaking English as their second or third language. On the impact of the play, Ashe shares, “I’ve received some messages from audience members who say they are changed for the better and that it’s never occurred to them to think about what someone gives up – what parts of them they give up – when they are speaking a language that is not their mother tongue.”
Sitting down with Schön!, Ashe details reworking her role in English for the Broadway stage, learning more about herself through her character, and what she hopes audiences will take away from the play.
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Firstly, I want to congratulate you on English on Broadway! How does it feel to reprise your role three years later on Broadway?
It’s so exciting to be having a Broadway debut, but to be having it with this play – that was so meaningful the first time I did it – now feels, in some ways, heavier because of world events in the last three years, but also more important. It’s been a real joy to do it on Broadway with the original cast and creative team.
For those who haven’t heard of the play, can you explain what it’s about?
It takes place in a TOEFL classroom in Iran – TOEFL is the English as a foreign language test. It’s a bunch of adult learners in that class, I am one of them, and we essentially see them navigating language and communicating with each other; struggling with that language. The way the playwright has written the play, you hear the play in English, but when we’re speaking Persian (Farsi), we’re speaking in unaccented English. It really allows accessibility for the audience. You’re never getting subtitles, you’re actually hearing the entire show in English and when they’re speaking their mother tongue, there’s even less of a barrier because you’re hearing unaccented English. It’s hard to explain. [Laughs]
It’s an exciting concept because, as an audience member, it makes you realise when someone is speaking in a second language, it’s not completely truthful to who they are. When you are speaking in English as if you were speaking Farsi, it makes sense for it to be seamless.
It gives you a sense of interiority which you normally wouldn’t get if there was a different language you were hearing or if you were hearing someone speak accented English. That’s one of the major themes of the play, and it lures you in. The play is very funny, and at the beginning, you can feel the audience laughing, and they should be laughing in some ways at the accents. As the play goes on, it’s asking you, “What are you actually laughing at? Are you laughing at their accents? Why?” It starts to – in an artful and subtle way – question how we perceive people speaking languages as a second or third language.
Can you tell me a bit about your character, Elham, and what drew you to the role?
I love her so much. She’s a very unapologetic, tenacious character who has a clear goal set in her mind. She has to pass this test – she has not successfully passed this test five times – and it is what will allow her to go and continue her studies. She wants to become a doctor. This is someone who is very academically inclined and used to excelling, used to being the best person in the class, and she suddenly finds herself in this classroom where she’s not good at English. She doesn’t feel like herself, as you said earlier, and she starts to butt heads with the teacher who has this love of English that Elham doesn’t understand. She perceives it as a rejection of her Iranian culture and the Persian language. That sets up these opposing forces and they really come to verbal blows as they navigate what both characters want.
What have you discovered in the play or within your character now you’re reprising the role that you hadn’t uncovered the first time around?
It’s not as intimate of a space [on Broadway] and my body as an actor knows that. I have found that I’ve had to make, specifically, a lot of physical choices that are different. Again, my actor body understands I’m now performing for 700 people versus 150 people. I need to make the story and the intentions clear to the person in the very back row, so I’ve created a roadmap for myself that is a little less subtle.
As I mentioned, in the intervening three years, specifically in Iran, the Woman, Life, Freedom movement has happened, and that has affected my conscious and subconscious so much. That has entered the play and Elham, to me, has become a kind of representation. The play was set in 2007/2008, so she was already representative of the women in the Green Movement that happened in Iran, but even more so, the bravery we’ve seen from the women in Iran in the last three years. That’s just a part of the play now. I’m an Iranian who was born in Iran and grew up here – so I in no way can represent an Iranian who has grown up in Iran – but I do feel the weight of that representation in depicting these characters who are in Iran. And, in some way, I think of Elham as an alternate avatar of myself had I not left Iran, and that really messes with your mind in some ways. There’s this sliding doors version of myself with me on stage every night which is a gift, but also very strange.
It’s fascinating to hear you describe that and how it feeds into your performance. Playing a role like this, there’s a lot, emotionally and beyond, going on, so what is the most exciting part and what scared you the most?
The Broadway schedule is very gruelling and there are days when I think, “I don’t know how I’m going to get through this.” [Laughs] The play is so incredible, that if you get on the ride, it’ll take you. I find, inevitably, if I just commit and submit to the play, it’s an exciting journey. Elham’s journey is so extreme in some ways – I think more than any of the other characters, she changes the most in the play. I can’t pinpoint a particular moment, but when I think of her in the first and last scenes, it’s so exciting to know I’m going on the journey of what happens in between.
I don’t know if it’s scary, but what’s so important to me as an actor is being truthful. As I previously discussed, the stakes here feel so high, and my love for the play and respect for Sanaz [Toossi] who wrote the play is so great. I feel the weight of not only Iranian representation but of anyone who feels othered. It’s not so much scary, but there is an aspirational pressure every night to truthfully tell the story to represent people whose voices have often, certainly not, been heard on Broadway.
With that being said, how did the role challenge you and help you to evolve as an actor?
In a lot of ways, I feel more confident in my ability to story tell, which is the goal. The number one thing – and what’s so refreshing about this part in particular – is that Elham is not a character who is primarily seeking approval from others. She’s messy in a way which is refreshing for me. As women in general, we’re asked to play a part and be pretty about it, and Elham is not that. The way she sounds when she speaks English is not beautiful or elegant, she’s screaming in the play in a guttural way about winning a ball game. These are not things I’ve ever been able to do in a part before, and it’s so freeing. But, for me, Tala, it’s just a reminder that I don’t need to care so much about what people think. I’m not here to please people, that’s not the definition of good work or good art, and the most important thing as a person and as an actor is to be true to yourself. Certainly to be kind to everyone around you, but not primarily be seeking their approval. Coming from my background of being an Iranian who grew up in Ohio, I feel so much of my life has been about assimilation, fitting in, and, “Oh my God, is someone looking at me weird because I look like this or talk like this or because my parents have an accent?” There’s something that Elham and this part have taught me, both as an actor and person that I hope I can carry forward in my work about being unapologetic about who you are.
That’s such a beautiful message, not only for your character and for yourself, but having the space to reflect that to the audience. I think everyone can relate to that in various ways, so it is universal.
Exactly, and that’s what’s so brilliant about the play. Yes, it is set in Iran, yes we’re in a TOEFL classroom, but there’s a universality to it. There are so many ways into the play, whether you’ve tried to learn a language before, or you have a complicated relationship with your parents, or you’re someone who is trying to pass a test.
From that, what is one thing you hope the audience takes away from the play?
I’ve received some messages from audience members who say they are changed for the better and that it’s never occurred to them to think about what someone gives up – what parts of them they give up – when they are speaking a language that is not their mother tongue. It’s a small thing, but it’s a big thing. The next time that an audience member encounters someone in the world who has an accent or is struggling with English in this case, if there can be more humanity ascribed to that person and an understanding that there’s an interiority there that they may not have access to, that would be an important takeaway.
You’ve also been in off-Broadway productions of The Profane, The Who & The What, and Urge for Going. Do you prefer acting onstage or on screen? How do they differ?
My first love will always be theatre. What I so appreciate about theatre is that no one is editing your performance. What happens on that night is what happens on that night, for better or worse, it’s yours. You have some degree of control over that and that’s so exciting. I love that anything can happen. I especially love it when you’re acting opposite someone who is also invested in being in the moment. That’s the best feeling in the world because both of you are listening so deeply that you don’t know what’s going to happen and you don’t know how you’re going to respond. Not to say that can’t happen on film, but there’s often less time to do it and there’s not necessarily that depth built with someone through rehearsal. When I started to do more television, that was a big transition. I realised, “Oh, I have to prepare all of this work on my own beforehand and come in and be flexible and in the moment with someone else who has also done that work.” Sometimes that goes really well and sometimes it feels like, “Oh gosh, I’m being too stagnant in my choices or the other person is;” that can be challenging. Then, of course, with television – it’s not an actor’s medium, it’s a director’s and editor’s medium – they will craft the performance you will ultimately see. In doing television, I’ve been able to separate myself from the end product because it’s just so deeply out of my hands, you know? [Laughs] I love television, so I’m very grateful whenever I can be a part of a project that is fun and rich in that way. But, I think theatre will always be my first love, and it’s what I feel most capable of doing.
It’s interesting hearing you say that because as a viewer, I’m never really thinking about the process of how you would be preparing for theatre versus on screen.
Often, I don’t like coming into a theatre rehearsal even having my lines memorized. I find that if I do that, I’ve made choices already. I like to make choices in the room with another human being, and you can’t do that with TV. You just don’t have the time. At least, I haven’t been privy to a process that allows that kind of rehearsal beforehand.
Looking back on your childhood, is there something specific event – a film, person, or event – that made you want to pursue acting?
I had a teacher in high school – my English teacher, but I went to a very small school, so he was also my drama teacher – and he nurtured me… I was one of those students who was more concerned about getting an A than learning in some ways. I think that’s part of being an immigrant – although my parents weren’t particularly concerned – I felt like, “I have to get an A, I have to get 100%.” But, I did All My Sons in high school and it expanded my understanding of what it is to learn and absorb something and to see other human beings reflected in work. I always loved reading, so the blueprint was there, but to realise that I could step into the shoes of these people who had been living in my books was the real magical thing to me.
Back to your question about what I’ve learned from Elham, I think there’s something about communion with yourself that I’ve learned as an actor. Those first times I did a scene or a play in high school, I realised that I needed to become friends with myself, to create an intimacy with myself that is so different from that front-facing person who wants to fit in, who is just trying to get validation from others. The other side of it requires a vulnerability with yourself, and even though that’s scary and I’ve fought against it, it’s a fight I’m willing to take on for my life because I know it’s a worthy one. I think it makes me kinder, a better person, and a better partner in the world.
It is that journey of self-discovery that is crucial to anyone, in any career, knowing who you are and being able to sit with yourself and be comfortable.
You start to realise that you don’t want to be derivative. There’s only so much you can do before you’re like, “No, I need to look inside me for there to be an output that is genuine and authentic and feels satisfying to myself.”
We talked a bit about representation on stage, but for five years, you played Zari in DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, the first Muslim-American superhero on television. What does it mean to be a part of that on-screen representation?
It was incredible. It was the first time I felt like I was in an ensemble and a community and supported by the showrunner, producers, and network. They were interested in hearing my opinions on her journey and her representation. That evolved, and we went on an odyssey for five years. I feel proud of the work that we all did together and I think Zari was, in some ways, really revolutionary. I still hear from people who had never seen themselves represented on screen in that way. And yes, she was Muslim, but that wasn’t the number one thing about her identity. She was a person, she was three-dimensional, she was nuanced, she was questioning, she was changing, she was complex. That was the first time that I had an opportunity to do something so important representationally and also have the time to develop it in tandem with people who were interested in doing that work.
You also use your digital platform to spread your activism work, why is this so important for you to do?
I say I have the chronic disease of caring. I can’t help but care. I always have. I grew up going to Amnesty International meetings with my mum when I was eight years old. To some degree, it’s in my blood and the ethos of my family that it is imperative to stand up for those who don’t have a voice or cannot stand up for themselves.
Social media is a very flawed system of communication, but it’s really important for me to balance both my own mental health and bandwidth for these things with speaking up when I am able for things I feel strongly about. I don’t think I’ll ever stop doing that, even in the face of perhaps losing work. More and more people are getting blacklisted and cancelled, that’s the culture we’re moving towards unfortunately – and I don’t think social media is a place to be having conversations – but it is my platform, and I get to speak up for the things that matter to me there.
That’s a tough balance to strike between looking out for your well-being and knowing that you have a platform that you can use to spread awareness, so I applaud you for that.
Thank you.
Lastly, what’s next for you and your career?
I would say that doing English on Broadway gives me a lot of hope, both in terms of representation and being involved with art that reaches people on the level that this play is. To be totally honest, it has set the bar very very high and I’m a little worried about my own mental health coming off of this project. [Laughs] Mostly, I feel so grateful that I know it’s possible to be a part of something that feels so rich. I think anyone who sees this play experientially understands that we can tell stories about people who are different from us that are universal and that are objectively good. It is just good storytelling, and that can happen across all mediums. In a wide-scale way, I hope the impact of this show reverberates into the future, not just for me, but for generations of theatre artists and other people making art in these mediums. In a lovely way, it sets the bar high for projects that I’m looking forward to in the future. I’m excited about what might be coming down the pipeline.
