jacket. Diesel
button down. TOGA
denim. Model’s Own
opposite
blazer. MM6 Maison Margiela
sweater. GCDS
Betty Who has come full circle. Since being signed nearly a decade ago, singer-songwriter Betty Who has been navigating pop stardom, letting her vibrant and infectious songs lead the way through the music industry as she ticked off one dream after the next. Now in her thirties, the Australian-American has a whole new lease on life as well as an ironclad grip on her sense of self. The release of Who’s fourth studio album, BIG!, is a collection of some of her most personal work to date and sees her reclaiming the version of herself that got her noticed to begin with. Betty Who has written music for, first and foremost, herself, and she’s finally marching to the beat of her own drum.
Schon! caught up with Betty Who to talk about her latest music, dipping her toes in the waters of other creative endeavours, and the trials and tribulations of what it’s really like being a popstar.
Tell us a little about your upbringing in Sydney. You were trained from the age of four as a cellist, you’re self-taught on piano and guitar, you wrote your first songs at age 14, and you began performing as a singer-songwriter two years later. Do you come from a musical family?
My dad is definitely the musical one in our family. We always say music needs fans, and that’s my mother, but I think she actually has a lot more in her than we probably give her credit for. My dad has a really good ear. He loves to sing and has a beautiful voice, and when he was a kid he was in boys’ choirs. But in his family, it was just never even remotely a possibility that he would spend actual time and effort on music. When I was thinking about going to performing arts high school, my dad was actually against it at first, until my mum asked him what one of the biggest regrets of his life was, and he said it was not having music in his life. So my mum said, ‘she’s going.’ Of course, my parents have had moments of being stressed that I wouldn’t end up on my own two feet through music. We’re not an industry family, so nobody really knew what I was getting myself into. It’s definitely been a learning experience for all of us. Now they’ve finally arrived at the point where they’re like, ‘okay, you’re taking care of yourself, you’ve got this.”
You released your album, BIG!, in October! Can you tell me a little bit about this album and what it means to you? You mentioned that this album is truly for yourself, Jessica Newham, rather than Betty Who.
I think I spent a lot of time in the early years of my career trying to learn how to be in the business. I always knew how to write songs and sing – that’s never been the thing I needed help with. I’ve gotten better as I’ve honed my craft, but the thing I had no idea how to do was be a successful business person. How could I have? I was 21 when I signed my record deal with Sony. There has been a lot of trial and error, and a lot of that had to do with my identity: I was writing music to serve this greater entity that was my business as opposed to trying to be an artist and lean into the creative part of me.
I think this record is the first time (since my first album because I didn’t know what I was doing) that I didn’t write the music for fans or for a larger group of people. It really feels like I went and made art for the first time since I was 20 years old. It was equal parts really painful and really beautiful. I had to dig into the depths to then come back up for air and make my music fun and service it for everybody else. I was deep in a Bowie hole the other night watching an interview with him, and he mentioned how he was just making the art that came to him. I think I waited a long time for someone to give me permission to be successful enough to do that. There was pressure to deliver ‘hit singles’ but COVID made me look at what was in front of me, and I realised that I was the only one who could give myself that permission.
blazer. Egonlab
sweater. Rowing Blazers
button down. TOGA
denim. Model’s Own
bag + hat. Louis Vuitton
There’s a quote that I thought resonated with your music a bit: ‘Happiness is a most rebellious act.” And when I typed that in Google to confirm the exact wording, it said that Australians call this Tall Poppy Syndrome. How fitting!
Oh my gosh! Do you know that I want to start a record label and call it Tall Poppy Records? That’s my ultimate dream. Yeah, Tall Poppy Syndrome is very much a part of my culture, not only as an Australian but also personally, because I’m literally tall. I’m 6’2”. To have that be both metaphorical and also literal has been something that my mum and I have talked a lot about. It’s so funny that you found that. The song “BIG,” which is the album’s title track, has the theme of accepting yourself for who you are and that is very much me basically turning 30 and being like, ‘is that sick that I’m the tallest poppy? Is that cool for me? Should I just get over it?” It’s taken me that long to try and find peace with that. Full circle.
I know you began mapping out this album after your release of Betty in 2019 before pivoting because of Covid and changing its direction. Did the album take much longer than usual to finish?
At the end of 2019 and the top of 2020, I was collecting songs for what I thought was going to be a concept record. I make music to go tour it. That’s my business model, and that’s where I want to connect with fans. Putting out music on the internet doesn’t fulfill some childhood dream of mine. It doesn’t feel tangible. I need that sort of tour connection, and I think that’s where my superpower is: being in a room with people and feeding off each other’s energy.
That’s what I think I do really well. As everything paused with COVID, I was like, I can’t put this record out because I can’t go tour it, and I’m not going to put music out I can’t tour. So I sat on that music and I realised it was part of a larger story. I took it to my friend Sam Lansky who is an incredible writer as well as journalist, and he and I have now written a movie musical with that music that was originally this album. That was a huge project of ours in quarantine, and we’re in development in that film and we’re really excited about it. Once that music got taken out of the picture, I thought I needed to reconnect with the thing that made me want to do this all, which was writing songs.
Getting my teenage singer-songwriter hat on, feeling feelings, putting them down and seeing what becomes of them later. That was where this record started. I didn’t write that many songs. So many people write so much music, and I respect that journey. I’ve been there. But I know that these songs are good, and my batting average, if you will, is pretty high now. So I took the best of those songs that I had collected, all of which felt very emotional, to Martin Johnson, who is a producer and artist in his own right. He brought on his two guys, and the four of us went to Utah for two weeks where we pulled these songs apart and produced them. We worked 18 hour days and it was full on.
blazer. MM6 Maison Margiela
sweater. GCDS
opposite
blazer. MM6 Maison Margiela
sweater. GCDS
You’ve recently announced a huge European and North American tour kicking off in early 2023, and this is being described as your triumphant chapter yet. Why is that?
Is it? Wow! That’s a great question. I think there are a lot of reasons. I have a really amazing team right now and I feel really happy with the group of people who are giving me their time and energy. I have new management and I’m really proud of the team for how hard everyone has busted their asses for what is, inevitably, my childhood dream. It’s so strange to me all the time that there are grown men and women on this planet whose every day job is to serve my vision. I’m always blown away by that and I’m very grateful. I’ve known for a long time that nobody is going to see or care about my vision the way that I do, because I’m the one that’s seen it. I’m the one that’s lying awake at night imagining myself on the biggest stage I could possibly be on. I’m really cognizant of how special it is that I’ve gotten this time and attention from these really smart, dedicated people, and I think that makes a huge difference.
But I will say, I think the thing that I’m feeling from fans is that it’s the first time they are seeing the part of me that was on my first record, which is what I think a lot of people liked about me in the first place. I think I abandoned a lot of that stuff when I got signed almost immediately, because I didn’t understand that was what made me special. It took me a long time to realise it’s way better to follow the beat of my own drum, if you will. I’m 30 and I’m figuring that out now. It’s so cool to look at someone like Billie Eilish who is doing what she wants to do. She is SO cool and I wish I had the presence of mind to be so independent at a young age. I’m psyched now though. When I turned 30 I felt like this is where I was meant to be my whole life. I feel very powerful.
What cities or venues are you always most excited to be playing on tour?
DC is my magic city. Of course I love New York, and LA is fun, but artists always have one city where you’re like, why is there a culture for me in this place? DC is that place for me. We’re selling more tickets in DC than we are in New York City. Unbelievable to me! I really feel a kinship there and not only is it the biggest show, it’s the place where I feel the most welcome. I feel like a rockstar in DC. But I will say, in Boston we’re playing House of Blues. I went to Berklee College of Music and so I saw so many shows when I was at school there, learning to do what I do professionally. I saw so many artists come through playing the House of Blues and I always wanted to headline it, but I never have. My goal is to sell that bitch out!
blazer. Egonlab
sweater. Rowing Blazers
button down. TOGA
denim. Model’s Own
bag + hat. Louis Vuitton
What’s on your rider?
We go through phases depending on how fit we’re trying to be. On a sad fit tour, it’s like, rotisserie chicken, you know what I mean? On a fun tour, we had one where we liked to experiment with donuts. We were like, bring us a dozen donuts from the artisanal donut shop of your city. But a hot tip that someone told me, that I was genuinely so shook by, was to put socks and wife beaters on the rider. If you’re wearing wife beaters under your show clothes then you can toss it after the show and you’re not travelling with your wet dirty clothes. I thought that was a sick idea. But none of the ‘only green M&M’ type requests on the rider or anything like that.
As a Boston native, I was thrilled to discover you attended Berklee College of Music. In your first semester there, you met producer Peter Thomas , and the two of you developed your sound together over those next two years. What can you remember about this time of your life?
Boston was such a huge part of this life that I’m living. I think I could have had a lot of different lives and I don’t know if I’d be sitting here or making the music that I’m making if I hadn’t had that Berklee experience. They tell you on the first day of school that Berklee is about your class, of course, but it’s really about your classmates. The person that’s your neighbour in the dorm, that’s going to be the next biggest music producer on the planet. The person that’s across the hall from you in your dorm is going to be winning an Oscar for their film score. They tell you that the people in the buildings are your cohorts in the music business, don’t forget it. And it really is true. Every room that I walk into, there’s a Berklee kid in the room saying, ‘we went to school together.’ They weren’t lying! I came from classical musical school where I feel like everybody had their noses turned up at like, Whitney Houston and Katy Perry. But then to get to Berklee and get to study Whitney Houston and Katy Perry songs and learn how to play them… I love the reverence that it holds for that genre of music.
I read that your stage name comes from a title of a song you composed at age 16. Has having a stage name helped compartmentalize your private life in a way at all, as in are you able to leave your work at the door?
Definitely. I think it’s less personal life and public life, because I’m not really famous enough, in a good way. You know, E! News isn’t posting my dating life and I don’t feel like I need to protect myself in that way, so I feel grateful for that. But I do think that the number one thing, for better and for worse, is that it’s helped separate more work and life. When you are an artist, you’re selling yourself at all times. To be the product and also the creator is a lot of management. It’s like, how do I just feel like a human for a second and not just a product and an entity that I’m trying to sell to people all the time? In a good way, I can be like, I don’t want to talk or think about Betty Who. But for worse, I think it made it feel like Betty Who was something very separate from me, Jessica, which I think held me back from creating amazing storytelling art in a lot of ways. Now I’m actually trying to make the gap a lot smaller and connect the two. Betty Who still is me, and the name doesn’t mean I can get away with not putting my heart and soul into it.
They say that the music from our teens stays with us forever. There’s apparently actual evidence that structural elements of music get physically tied to our memories. What was that music for you?
My first instinct, the first one to pop into my head, was the Avril Lavigne Album Let Go. I have spent time with that record, and when I listen to it now I’m instantly transported. It’s so indicative of that time of my life. That and randomly, 8701 by Usher.
blazer. Acne Studios
tank top. Moschino
As an artist, you’ve truly experienced it all. You’ve gone viral, you’ve soundtracked a Netflix show, you’ve become an LGBTQ icon, and you’ve even just made your TV Hosting debut on a dating series. Of all your major accolades, what would you say has been the biggest ‘pinch me’ moment so far?
The one thing that I’ve done that I knew was a big deal when it was happening was when I sang at an event for the Democratic National Convention and I got to meet President Obama. I have a video of President Obama saying, “Give it up for Betty Who” in his iconic voice. We actually have it in the show intro before I walk on stage every night. My parents got to come and get a picture with him. They can’t believe that music is the thing that led us to this place. I don’t think either of my parents expected it to be this real and have those altering experiences like getting to meet the President through me making up dumb songs.
I know other artists have spoken about this, but do you feel the pressures of being a ‘creator’ on social media that many are feeling, or are you able to actually enjoy it? Your Tiktok is amazing by the way.
I have this incredible deal with BMG that lets me own some of the things that I’m creating as well as having an actual team and a group of people who believe in the project. And of course BMG has a whole team of wonderful young people who send me TikTok ideas and I’m like, ‘sounds good!’ I’ve of course felt pressure and had so many conversations about it. My TikTok is usually just me being inspired for that one moment. It was easier during the pandemic because I had the time, but I respect social media enough to understand that it’s a full time job. One of my best friends in the world is a social media consultant and manager, and she spends 8 hours a day making TikToks and running a social media division of a company. But I’m really busy! So whe nI’m having fun and have the time, I love to do it, but I go through phases of social media, as I’m sure we all do, where I need a break. I’ll delete it off my phone and it makes such a difference.
I want to talk about fashion’s role in music. I think you have such cool style. When you’re dressing for shows, do your outfits provide a sense of armour between day to day Jessica and Betty Who?
Clothing is the number one thing I’m still trying to carve a lane for myself in. The only creative outlet I had for so long was Betty Who, and so I was trying all these different things within that world, but it’s hard when you’re trying to be really authentic and make authentic music while testing out different expressions of yourself. I’m starting to understand that Betty Who has to be very targeted and specific. I have to make that obvious and safe and have a world that lives in, and for me, is menswear and suits. When I look at myself on stage, I’m like, “that looks like her.” That’s the world that expresses where I’m at right now, and I think the only thing that holds me back from that is the fear of not wanting to only do menswear, so I think the next step to that is providing other worlds, opportunities and characters that aren’t that.. Like the movie musical that I’ve written for myself to star in, that character is really different from Betty Who. I want her to dress differently, act differently and have a different experience. Now I’m really starting to create different worlds for the different versions of myself to thrive and experience, and not have Betty Who be the only place my creative expression gets to live.
You’ve said you’ve always been a dreamer, and you’ve achieved some of them which must be so amazing to look back on. But sometimes the biggest learnings happen from the failures. What is the most valuable thing you’ve learned from a situation that didn’t go as planned?
So many! Much of my learning has been through failure…almost exclusively. When you succeed, I don’t think you learn half as much. I have always been someone who learns from what I don’t want. When I was in between management for the first time in my life, I was unsigned, I didn’t have a publishing deal, a record deal, or a manager. I was back to square one and felt really vulnerable. It was a really painful time. A friend of mine, Julie, told me that I am good at sensing energy, and told me to go where the energy is. She said, ‘If you’re feeling resistance towards something, don’t force it. Put it on the backburner, move on and come back to it.” This really shook me because all I felt in my music career was resistance.
Right after I had this conversation with her, I booked The One That Got Away, the Amazon TV Show that I hosted. That was the least amount of resistance I’ve ever felt in a job. I felt so ego-less because I felt like I had zero business there and I’d never hosted anything before. I couldn’t believe these people who I think are really smart and amazing took a chance on me and wanted me to be a part of this project they did. I felt very grateful and present to how much I love to work, and how the real thing that I love is giving razzle dazzle. I get just as much enjoyment hosting as I do getting onstage and playing a show. In a totally different way of course, but I just want to entertain people and have fun. But Julie’s advice changed my whole perspective, and I now have so much more of a gauge of feeling resistance and knowing how to step back and shift my energy. It’s helped my career and relationships blossom. I’m riding that wave. I’m just having a sick time!
blazer. Acne Studios
tank top. Moschino
opposite
blazer. MM6 Maison Margiela
sweater. GCDS
BIG! is out now.
photography + direction. Mynxii White
fashion. Tabitha Sanchez
talent. Betty Who
casting. Alabama Blonde
hair. Sofia Porter @ Exclusive Artists
make up. Caitlin Krenz
production. James Kristofik
first ad. Craig Bullock
fashion assistant. Jaslynn Espinoza
words. Charlotte O’Neill
Schön! Magazine is now available in print at Amazon,
as ebook download + on any mobile device
